Hi all. I’m sorry I have multiple questions regarding the setup and updating to the Xtreme EMS. I didn’t realize this old boomer would need to be a computer expert also lol.
I’m having an issue setting up my Xtreme EMS. I’m using the RDAC XF. I believe I have everything wired correctly. First issue is on the Xtreme itself. I am using single fuel tank, and two fuel flow sensors. I cannot get fuel tank 1 to show when on sender mode. The entire fuel area remains blank on the EMS. Values will only show when I activate fuel tank 2 (which I don’t have) then all fuel values show up. I want to display 1 fuel tank and and 2 fuel flows. What am I doing wrong?
Second issue, I have an MGL MAGNETIC CURRENT MEASUREMENT SENSOR placed on the main line to the power bus. From reading I think it should be placed on the wire from the alternator? My engine is not running yet so that wire is not hooked up yet. Considering I have it placed on the battery wire, shouldn’t it be showing me amps being drawn when panel is on? I’m very confused if you couldn’t tell lol.
Third issue is regarding updates to the SD card. I plugged it in to the computer, and there’s no firmware file on it. I did use the “copy to SD card function” on the EMS before placing it in the computer. The entire update/simulator thing has got me baffled, and I’m no stranger to computers.
Any help on any of my issues would be greatly appreciated. I’d really like to get my aircraft in the air lol.
Mike
Xtreme EMS
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Please keep your posts friendly and on topic. No politics or discussions of a controversial nature not related to our favorite subject of flying and avionics. Offending posts may be removed or moderated.
Re: Xtreme EMS
Hi Mike,
Regarding the fuel flow. Select the fuel mode: differential or summation.
You should be seeing some current (as long as it is a few amps). You could do into the Sensor info menu on the Xtreme and see if there is any change in the Current ADC value. Then you will know if the current sensor is installed and connected correctly.
Please see page 72 of the manual on how to update the Xtreme EMS. We are currently on version 2.16. It might be best to update the firmware and then load default settings. This will bring back the Xtreme to factory defaults. The latest firmware file can be found on the MGL Avionics website under the Xtreme section.
Regards,
Franz
Regarding the fuel flow. Select the fuel mode: differential or summation.
You should be seeing some current (as long as it is a few amps). You could do into the Sensor info menu on the Xtreme and see if there is any change in the Current ADC value. Then you will know if the current sensor is installed and connected correctly.
Please see page 72 of the manual on how to update the Xtreme EMS. We are currently on version 2.16. It might be best to update the firmware and then load default settings. This will bring back the Xtreme to factory defaults. The latest firmware file can be found on the MGL Avionics website under the Xtreme section.
Regards,
Franz
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mleimetter
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 11:41 am
Re: Xtreme EMS
Hi Franz and thanks so much for you help. I did get it to upgrade finally. I had also put the RDAC-XF .bin file on the card and initially it came up with an error message. How do I know if the RDAC was upgraded or not lol? I also figured out that you have to delete the EMS update software from the card or it will keep asking you if you want to update every time you power up the EMS. I had it showing me the 2 flow sensors and fuel tank 1 by using the diff settings but after the update it only shows 1 flow sensor now. I thought this was supposed to be almost plug n play but I’m finding a lot of gremlins. I really appreciate your help
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mleimetter
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 11:41 am
Re: Xtreme EMS
Hi guys! Well some things are working and some are not. The engine tach is all over the place. Shows the tech going up and down never stopping on a stable rpm. The rpm gauge that I have works fine and they are both coming off the same wire from the ECU. Also the coolant sensor stays at -27 even after the engine is warmed up. Volts seem fine, amps seem fine, and fuel flows are good. Fuel level is intermittent. Seems like sane with the FF4 as it uses the same connection from the RDAC. Any ideas? Bad ground, bad sensor? I’m at a loss.
Mike
Mike
Re: Xtreme EMS
Hi Mike,
Firstly, it does not matter which brand of avionics you own, Garmin, Dynon, MGL, GRT, they mostly all use the same basic type of engine sensor, so reading other aircraft or avionics forums can helpful you get a better picture about sensors and glass avionics.
So back to fault finding for our basic engine sensors, Group 1. EGT's, CHT's, Oil Temp, Fuel & Oil PSI and Group 2. RPM, Fuel Flow.
These two different sensor groups use two different signals types, Group 1 use voltage/resistance signal and Group 2 uses electrical pulses (like square wave pulses many times a second).
My Sensor fault finding would start with, >>>>>check your EFIS/sensor setup >>>>> check for correct sensor type >>>>> sensor parameter are set up correctly>>>>>>> take a good look at the sensor's wiring connections>>>>>>> check connectivity of RDAC Negative bus to engine>>>>>>>>>check RADC Negative Bus by OHMS reading>>>>>>> clean negative bus connection if required>>>>>>check there is DC power to sensor if required>>>>>>>>check sensor connectors>>>>> check correct sensor operation>>>>> replace sensor.
Now talking about a number of engine gauges giving you flakey readings (changing values or not solid values ) this could be an RDAC Negative Bus differential, meaning all the sensors connected to the RDAC, one or more may not their negative wires connecting back to your RDAC's negative bus,
this includes your fuel tank sensors.
I had to calibrate the MGL Amp unit I got, once installed, do it per the instructions.
With the RPM sensor, you might find the ECU signal is not the right type needed for your MGL EFIS, or you need to use a pull up resistor. I had a similar issue with the previous owner using one of my aircraft's ignition coils, I finally gave up doing it that way and looked for a better sensor and never looked back now having a rock solid RPM reading for some years.
If you are interested in the way I sorted a few of these issues out, search my post on this forum, they may help you.
Firstly, it does not matter which brand of avionics you own, Garmin, Dynon, MGL, GRT, they mostly all use the same basic type of engine sensor, so reading other aircraft or avionics forums can helpful you get a better picture about sensors and glass avionics.
So back to fault finding for our basic engine sensors, Group 1. EGT's, CHT's, Oil Temp, Fuel & Oil PSI and Group 2. RPM, Fuel Flow.
These two different sensor groups use two different signals types, Group 1 use voltage/resistance signal and Group 2 uses electrical pulses (like square wave pulses many times a second).
My Sensor fault finding would start with, >>>>>check your EFIS/sensor setup >>>>> check for correct sensor type >>>>> sensor parameter are set up correctly>>>>>>> take a good look at the sensor's wiring connections>>>>>>> check connectivity of RDAC Negative bus to engine>>>>>>>>>check RADC Negative Bus by OHMS reading>>>>>>> clean negative bus connection if required>>>>>>check there is DC power to sensor if required>>>>>>>>check sensor connectors>>>>> check correct sensor operation>>>>> replace sensor.
Now talking about a number of engine gauges giving you flakey readings (changing values or not solid values ) this could be an RDAC Negative Bus differential, meaning all the sensors connected to the RDAC, one or more may not their negative wires connecting back to your RDAC's negative bus,
this includes your fuel tank sensors.
I had to calibrate the MGL Amp unit I got, once installed, do it per the instructions.
With the RPM sensor, you might find the ECU signal is not the right type needed for your MGL EFIS, or you need to use a pull up resistor. I had a similar issue with the previous owner using one of my aircraft's ignition coils, I finally gave up doing it that way and looked for a better sensor and never looked back now having a rock solid RPM reading for some years.
If you are interested in the way I sorted a few of these issues out, search my post on this forum, they may help you.
Last edited by JimJab on Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Older MGL units
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mleimetter
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 11:41 am
Re: Xtreme EMS
Thank you Jim Jab you’ve given me lot of good info and a place to start. I got the Amp situation sorted out. The coolant temp sensor just screws into the water channel on the engine 1/8 NPT and has one post for a wire that is run to the RDAC so I’m sure that’s wired correctly although the sensor may be bad who knows. I’m going to retrace all the ground leads next weekend and see what I can find. I switched some parameters on the engine rpm software and also switched the dip switch on. Will see how that works next weekend also before it’s 115 outside lol. Thanks again for your input.
Mike
Mike
Re: Xtreme EMS
Hi Mike,
With you water temp sender, if you don't have it spec's, try to do a google picture search to find the spec's for your sensor, then check it's selected in your XTreme EMS menu, as well make sure all other setting for the water temp sensor are also set.
If your not sure which senor you have, run the engine until it's warmed up and then change the EMS to each sensor option, with any luck you'll see the temp numbers change after 15-20 seconds of changing the sensor type.
If nothing happens, then select the best matching option you have in your EMS settings.
Next step, this type of sensor earths through the 1/8 NPT thread to the engine. So if your sensor is installed using to much thread tape or the sensor is installed into a radiator header tank that's rubber mounted to prevent vibrating. Both these situation can prevent the sensor from being properly earthed to the RDAC/Engine ground/negative bus.
Check this link out as it has some pictures in how to check for isolated parts on your plane to the negative bus and pictures are worth a thousand words.
https://www.mglavionics.co.za/phpBB3/v ... 2&start=51
To test for this warm up your engine, get some electronic Crocodile Clip/Bridging Test leads or a bit of small electrical wire or at last resort use a battery jumper lead.
Attach one clamp to the water temp sensor base/threaded metal and the other end to a good earthed part on the engine. Make sure these connection are clean for a good earth connection.
Watch to see if the EMS temp gauge changes, if you see the temp change, then the sensor is not earthed properly and you'll need to fix the sensor earth back to your engine.
Or you can use a multimeter to do this test. Select Ohms on your Multimeter, measure the ohms between the engine block and the metal body/threaded section of the sensor.
If the reading is between 1 to 10 Ohms, then it has a good earth connection, but if the number is "OL" or has "K" or "M" after the meter number, then your sensor is not properly earthed.
Once you have proved the Sensor earth to the engine is good. But you still have no change in the water temperature on the EMS, the sensor is most likely stuffed. There is one more test to do with a Multimeter to confirm that will really confirm this.
Remove the sensor from the engine, put the positive lead of your Multimeter to the sensor's signal wire terminal and the negative lead of your Multimeter to the threaded part of the sensor.
Now, heat the sensor up with a hot air gun or a hand held hair drier and as the sensor heats up you should see the ohms reading change. If the Ohms value does not change, it's time to get a new water temperature sensor.
Also Mike, here is a Link to a MGL RPM posts, this might gives you some background as to why your EMS RPM reading maybe so flakey. But firstly I would try using your RDAC pull up resistor setting with your ECU signal.
https://www.mglavionics.co.za/phpBB3/vi ... p?f=3&t=29
Cheers
JimJab
With you water temp sender, if you don't have it spec's, try to do a google picture search to find the spec's for your sensor, then check it's selected in your XTreme EMS menu, as well make sure all other setting for the water temp sensor are also set.
If your not sure which senor you have, run the engine until it's warmed up and then change the EMS to each sensor option, with any luck you'll see the temp numbers change after 15-20 seconds of changing the sensor type.
If nothing happens, then select the best matching option you have in your EMS settings.
Next step, this type of sensor earths through the 1/8 NPT thread to the engine. So if your sensor is installed using to much thread tape or the sensor is installed into a radiator header tank that's rubber mounted to prevent vibrating. Both these situation can prevent the sensor from being properly earthed to the RDAC/Engine ground/negative bus.
Check this link out as it has some pictures in how to check for isolated parts on your plane to the negative bus and pictures are worth a thousand words.
https://www.mglavionics.co.za/phpBB3/v ... 2&start=51
To test for this warm up your engine, get some electronic Crocodile Clip/Bridging Test leads or a bit of small electrical wire or at last resort use a battery jumper lead.
Attach one clamp to the water temp sensor base/threaded metal and the other end to a good earthed part on the engine. Make sure these connection are clean for a good earth connection.
Watch to see if the EMS temp gauge changes, if you see the temp change, then the sensor is not earthed properly and you'll need to fix the sensor earth back to your engine.
Or you can use a multimeter to do this test. Select Ohms on your Multimeter, measure the ohms between the engine block and the metal body/threaded section of the sensor.
If the reading is between 1 to 10 Ohms, then it has a good earth connection, but if the number is "OL" or has "K" or "M" after the meter number, then your sensor is not properly earthed.
Once you have proved the Sensor earth to the engine is good. But you still have no change in the water temperature on the EMS, the sensor is most likely stuffed. There is one more test to do with a Multimeter to confirm that will really confirm this.
Remove the sensor from the engine, put the positive lead of your Multimeter to the sensor's signal wire terminal and the negative lead of your Multimeter to the threaded part of the sensor.
Now, heat the sensor up with a hot air gun or a hand held hair drier and as the sensor heats up you should see the ohms reading change. If the Ohms value does not change, it's time to get a new water temperature sensor.
Also Mike, here is a Link to a MGL RPM posts, this might gives you some background as to why your EMS RPM reading maybe so flakey. But firstly I would try using your RDAC pull up resistor setting with your ECU signal.
https://www.mglavionics.co.za/phpBB3/vi ... p?f=3&t=29
Cheers
JimJab
Older MGL units
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mleimetter
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 11:41 am
Re: Xtreme EMS
Thank you sir. I will make the tests you have suggested and get back to you. It’s a good start. The sensor is the MGL sensor from Aircraft Spruce, $29 I believe.